This episode was written and produced by Leila Battison.

In part 2 of our exploration of Foley, the Warner Brothers Foley team takes us into the all-important prop room. Along the way, they demonstrate how they make the sounds for flapping birds, breaking bones, cracking ice, handling guns, and more. Featuring Foley Artists Alyson Moore and Chris Moriana, and Foley Mixer Darrin Mann.

MUSIC FEATURED IN THIS EPISODE

Rainbow Mystery by Kikoru
The Farmer by Fabien Tell
Don't Wak'em Up by Playtown
Tapped Out by Jerry Lacey
Third Wheelin by Jerry Lacey
Incidental Encounter by Arthur Benson
Heart of The Cloud by Dew of Light
Meander by Jobii

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View Transcript ▶︎

You’re listening to Twenty Thousand Hertz...

[music in]

Foley Artists perform custom sound effects in sync with the visuals for TV shows, movies, and video games. In our last episode, we met three members of the Warner Brothers Foley team, including Foley Mixer Darrin Mann:

Darrin: Can you guys hear me?

And foley artists Chris Moriana and Alyson Moore…

Alyson: I can hear you now.

Chris: Yes. We're hearing you in the headphones.

Alyson: I’m hearing you on the stage.

Darrin is in the mixing booth, while Alyson and Chris are on the foley stage down the hall.

Chris: We’re back, and we're ready whenever you are.

Last time, they gave us a tour around their Foley stage at a studio called The Barn, near Los Angeles. They told us all about the history of foley, and performed some of their iconic sounds, including Batman’s cape in The Dark Knight [sfx] and Slimer’s goo in Ghostbusters [sfx]. If you haven’t heard it yet, you should definitely go back and listen to that episode before you move on to this one.

[music out]

Making every sound that a scene calls for requires all kinds of techniques. For example, some sounds can be made with just their bodies…

Chris: A dog sniffing [sfx]. I use my own nose. Eating scenes [sfx: crunching/chewing].

Chris: For certain wind effects or even explosions sometimes, we'll use a technique where we'll actually blow into the mic.

Alyson: So okay, Darrin, I'm going to try to do a little whoosh by on this mic. Ready? [sfx: woosh]

Darrin: That was a good one.

A sound like that could be used for something like an object whizzing through the air, and Darrin could tweak it to make it faster, [sfx sped up] or more full sounding [sfx].

But most of the time, Chris and Alyson use props to make the sounds they need.

Chris: We all have our personal little hand props such as little jewelry pieces [sfx: jewelry jangling], little watches, beads [sfx: beads bouncing]

Alyson: Squeaky hinges [sfx].

Chris: I have some guitar strings [sfx]. I’ve got all kinds of little things in there.

Besides the hand props, they have access to a huge supply of objects in a room next door to the Foley stage. [music in]

Alyson: The prop room at Warner Brothers is huge. It's probably half the size of our stage and it has anything you can think of back there. It looks like a mess.

Imagine the messiest, most packed garage you’ve ever seen.

Alyson: But everything has a purpose. We've got suitcases [sfx] and chains [sfx], wheelchairs [sfx] and saddles [sfx]. We've got bins full of things that will say hand grenades [sfx]... or we might have a big one that says seashells [sfx].

Alyson: It's like, whatever you can think of, we've got it, and if we don't have it, we have use of the prop house at Warner Brothers, which is amazing. So we're able to go in there, free reign, and get armor if we need it [sfx: armor shuffle], old typewriters [sfx], things that we may not have on the stage.

Over the years, some of the stuff in the prop room has raised a few eyebrows. Like the time Michelle Obama visited the stage to see the team work.

Alyson: Before we knew it was Michelle Obama, the FBI came to check everything out and they looked at our hand props and one just said “Gun stuff” [laughs], and he said, “Can we please remove this?” We said, “Sure.” Even though it's obviously not real guns. We do have real guns, but they're locked up in a safe, but that was pretty funny.

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Some objects can’t be handled for long without falling apart or breaking down. A classic one is snow.

Darrin: You have the issue of it melting. You have to resupply.

Fortunately, there are other ways to make snow sounds. To get a really good crunch, they’ll scrunch up a bag of corn starch [sfx].

Other times, they’ll just use the sand in their sand pit [sfx].

But sometimes, nothing beats the real thing....

Chris: Sometimes the sound supervisor wants to hear the real crunch of real snow [sfx].

Chris: There are occasions where we do order snow ice, and bring it on the stage and put it down on top of a blanket, or something, and use that.

Alyson: Yeah, and also for Frozen, they had us bring in 150 pounds every day.

Alyson: The picture editor said, "I'm from Indiana and I know what real snow sounds like and you can't fool me."

Here’s a clip of Kristoff getting thrown in the snow in Frozen. [sfx]

Another material that doesn’t last long is leaves. So they replace them with something human-made. Listen and see if you can figure out what it is.

Chris: So I'll just give you a sample [sfx].

Chris: I'm actually using my feet and I'm actually walking in place.

Any guesses?

Chris: And it's on tape.

To be clear, we’re not talking about sticky tape. This is the magnetic tape that we used to use for recording audio and video.

Chris: Cassette tape, or reel to reel tape.

They can get slightly different sounds by using these different tape sizes.

Darrin: The quarter inch tape sounds more like grass, especially when it's been crunched up [sfx].

Darrin: Half inch tape sounds more like leaves [sfx].

Chris: But it's the one thing that you can use, and use and use.

Basically, the reason they don’t use real leaves, is because - one - they would cause a huge mess and two, they would be destroyed almost immediately and need constant resupply. On top of that, you really don’t want organic material festering on a foley stage. Magnetic tape is clean and foley artists can use it for years.

So we now know that snow and leaves are usually fake, but occasionally real. But for some sounds, doing what’s on screen, isn’t an option.

[music in]

Chris: It's going to be a crunch. And this could be used for several different things, but let's imagine somebody's hand is getting crunched. Let's imagine it's somebody that is torturing someone by hitting their hand with a mallet, and they crush their bones in their hand. So if you're ready, Darrin. Okay. Here we go. [sfx: first 2 crunches]

It sounds pretty gruesome, but of course, it’s not their actual bones getting smashed.

Chris: And this is a technique that we use for several different crunches. To reveal, what I'm using is just a stalk of celery, [sfx] and we'll use that in conjunction with shammies. We'll mix it up and put it on the floor. Maybe do it in more of a gravelly surface, which will give it even more texture [sfx].

Chris: That's used a lot.

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Other things just aren’t feasible, like training a live bird to flap on cue. So for flying birds, Chris makes the wing sounds himself.

Chris: I'm going to be doing the wings flapping as the bird flies through the air.

Chris: Here we go [sfx: wings flapping].

Can you guess what that is?

Chris: And what I'm using is just a feather duster.

That’s right, just a classic handheld feather duster. Many of them are made with ostrich feathers.

Chris: And I'm hitting it against my hand to make that sound of the flapping of the wings [sfx].

Chris:So if I were doing a smaller bird, obviously, they're smaller wings that flap more frequently. So a smaller bird is going to sound more like this [sfx: fast paced wing flaps].

Chris:Whereas a larger bird, and now I'm taking a larger feather duster, is going to be more like this [sfx: slower paced wing flaps].

Chris: I can even do something like this [sfx], which is just my fingers manipulating the feathers to make something even smaller.

Insect wings require a different approach.

[music in]

Alyson: We just started working on a television show called, Clarice, based on the Silence of the Lamb character. We had to do moth wings flapping.

Alyson: So, here are the moth wings [sfx].

In the studio, Alyson and Darrin had me guessing what prop they were actually using.

Alyson: It's something you use every day.

Dallas: Oh, can you perform it in a slightly different way?

Alyson: Okay, hold on. Here we go [sfx].

Darrin: I could give you another hint.

Darrin: Beginning of COVID, it was in very short supply.

Dallas: Masks. Is it a mask?

Alyson: No, it was a sheet of toilet paper.

Dallas: Wow. Okay. Yeah.

[music out]

Here are the moth wings in the trailer for Clarice: [SFX]

Next, Alyson demonstrated what she uses for characters handling guns.

Alyson: We all know the guns shouldn't make a sound, because they're probably broken if they're going to make a sound, but that's the real world. In Foley world, it needs to make some sort of sound to sound dangerous.

So Alyson dives into that box of “gun stuff” that they had to hide from Michelle Obama.

Alyson: If someone pulls out a gun, or just grabs the gun, this is what I use [sfx].

Alyson: Okay so, anybody want to guess? This is not a gun I'm using.

Dallas: I mean, that sounds exactly like a gun.

Alyson: So, this is an old cell phone with a hand can opener taped to it.

Dallas: Wow.

Alyson: You get the rattle from the can opener [sfx], and that's the handle for the gun, with the phone [sfx].

Dallas: Wow. I'm sure that the unions are very happy that you're not rolling around in real guns there [laughs].

Of course, not every gun you hear in a movie is an old cell phone. Some of them ARE real.

Alyson: But we keep those for when we really need to use something, but we can't drop real guns and things like that, because you will really damage the gun.

Not only that, bringing guns into a California studio can be pretty complicated.

Darrin: Yeah, the law in LA is, if you are transporting guns, you're supposed to be going to a range.

Alyson: Not a Foley stage [laughs].

[music in]

Using feather dusters, toilet paper, film tape, and can openers, this team makes movie scenes come to life. And they’re always on the lookout for new props to use on their next project. But out in public, hunting for the perfect sound can lead to some pretty awkward interactions. That’s coming up, after the break.

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MIDROLL

[music in]

Alyson, Chris and Darrin have been making custom sounds for movies and TV shows for decades. In that time, they’ve built up a huge collection of props for making all kinds of interesting sounds.

[music out]

Alyson: The next thing I have is a very simple cue. This is ice in a water glass, and this is what it sounds like [sfx].

Alyson: Very simple sound. You want to guess what I used for ice?

Dallas: It sounds exactly like ice in a water glass.

Alyson: I used, actually, a strand of beads.

Alyson: I believe these are Mardi Gras beads. These beads kind of work for mot so much cubes, but more like crushed ice.

Alyson: [sfx] If I grab it, you don't hear it as much as if I manipulate it with my finger [sfx]. In that case, I was using a little piece of celery.

Mardis Gras beads might work for crushed ice, but what about when a character is walking across a frozen lake?

Alyson: Maybe someone cracking ice, ice that's on the ground. Okay, here we go [sfx].

Alyson: Ok, so can you guess what I used for that?

Dallas: I’m thinking like, bamboo? Really thin reeds of some sort, that you're squeezing and turning until they break? I don't think that's it though.

Alyson: No, It's not, but that's a good suggestion [laughs]. No, it was actually a pine cone rolling over a piece of uncooked lasagna [sfx].

Surprisingly, that’s not the only sound you can make with lasagna…

Alyson: Sometimes with the lasagna, I've used it for like cracking knuckles [sfx]. Knuckles cracking is another really hard sound to do because once you crack your knuckles, they're gone for whoever knows how long.

Speaking of cracking things...

Alyson: The next thing I'm going to do is a cracking of an egg, or pecking.

Think about that scene in Jurassic Park when the dinosaur eggs hatch [sfx]. That’s not the sound of a real egg.

Alyson: Here we go [sfx]. That prop is dead.

Darrin: The prop is dead. The bird survived.

Alyson: Yes. Or dinosaur!

Dallas: If I was to guess, to my ears, I would probably say aluminum foil being hit with a pen.

Alyson: Oh, interesting [laughs]. It is your typical ice cream cone. It's easier to manipulate than an egg would be. This is why we wouldn't use a real egg. Real eggs are really hard to get cracking on the first crack. Also it's the detail in the cracking that's just easier to manipulate with the ice cream cone [sfx].

[music in]

Chris and Alyson are always on the lookout for objects with unique sounds.

Chris: I picked up many things on the side of the road or garage sales.

Alyson: You usually get your shoes at Goodwill, because they're already worn in. And so, you'll be sitting there, walking around and listening [sfx].

Sometimes, it’s hard for people to understand that the sound something makes is really the only thing that the Foley artists care about.

Alyson: We'll buy something as a prop where they'll say, "Oh yeah, you want this one? It looks really good." I don't care what it looks like, I just need for it to sound really good.

Alyson: We have a friend who is a Foley artist, who was in a restaurant that she frequented a lot. Her chair creaked [sfx] She's like, "Oh, this chair sounds so good."

Alyson: He goes, "Really? We're getting rid of all the chairs and replacing them."

Alyson: She said, "Okay. I'm going to write my name on the bottom of this chair. And I want this chair when you're finished."

Alyson: He goes, "Okay, great." She comes in and they've got all new chairs and she's like, "Great. Do you have my chair?"

Alyson: He goes, "Yep. I got your chair right here."

Alyson: She looked at it, she... "Well, that's not my chair."

Alyson: He goes, "Oh, no, no, no. I saved you a better one. I saved you a really nice one."

Alyson: "That's not what I wanted. I wanted that particular chair." [sfx: chair squeaking]

Darrin: Another artist was in a supermarket. She was taking liver and shaking it. [sfx] And a bystander walked by and she overheard them say, "Stay away from that one. She listens to the liver." [laughter]

So the next time you see someone doing something really weird in public, don’t be so quick to judge. They might just be a Foley artist.

[music out]

Alyson says that Foley has given her an unexpected superpower.

[music in]

Alyson: I know this is a weird thing, but for me, my reaction to things, whether it be driving in my car or if I'm about to trip over something, my reaction is so quick and I think it's because we have to be in sync. That's our thing. So we're always catching ourselves.

Chris: Yeah, I think our reflexes are faster than most.

Alyson: They're unbelievably fast.

Having great reflexes is one thing, But being hyper aware of every sound also has its drawbacks.

Darrin: I'll be out in the world and I'll hear somebody walking and I'm like, "Who's wearing those obnoxious shoes? [sfx] Oh my God, can you change them," and then I realize when you're outside and you're listening to people's shoes, you've been recording too much Foley.

[music out]

Of course, this hyper sensitivity also extends to whatever they’re watching on TV.

Chris: I know with Darrin. He'll be at home watching TV with his family and there'll be a sound, and he'll say, “Do you guys hear that?” they'll say, “No, what are you talking about?” ...and it has happened to me where I hear things that normal people just aren't tuned into… we're listening for certain things that a normal audience may not be aware of.

With Foley, like with most sound design, when the audience doesn’t notice, you’re doing your job right.

Chris: That's what we always say in Foley.

Chris: If you don't notice it, then it's great. It's only when you notice that something's missing, that's when it's bad.

Alyson: I think people take it for granted. They think that sound just comes in with filming, with the microphone that they use in production, and I don't think people really understand how much is enhanced in post.

Alyson: I think Foley can really draw you in, good Foley. Bad Foley can actually draw you out, if you're aware of it. It can draw you out of the story and out of the picture, so, more good Foley.

[music in]

By this point, Alyson, Chris, and Darrin have been walking, splashing and smacking their way through the Foley business for over thirty years.

Alyson: I dropped out of high school when I was 16, and without having an education, what would I be doing? Falling into Foley, I think, was just divine intervention from someone because I'm really not sure what I would have done.

Chris: I've been very fortunate that I've been able to work in this business as long as I have, and now Alyson and I are the team at Warner Brothers and we're very, very thankful and grateful that we are, so yeah, here I am.

Darrin: The one thing I really like about Foley is we'll do something different every day. “What are we going to do today?” “Oh, well we got to bash somebody's head in.” Ooh, cool!” So there's a vast gamut of different things that you do during a day and it changes so much. You never really get bored.

Fortunately, their jobs are pretty safe. With the number of movies and TV shows in production these days, there’s more and more Foley work available every year. And at this point, it is not a job you can automate.

Darrin: There's been several attempts for people to make what they call a footstep machine, where some editor is just making the sound of the feet and it is so awful. So thank goodness we still do human Foley.

A live, human performer brings a certain magic that a machine just can’t replicate.

Alyson: It's the emotion. It's the emotion of sound, I think. We're putting in a personal element of what's happening on the screen.

[music out]

[music in]

Twenty Thousand Hertz is hosted by me, Dallas Taylor, and produced out of the studios of Defacto Sound, a sound design team dedicated to making TV, film, and games sound amazing. Find out more at defactosound.com.

This episode was written and produced by Leila Battison, and Casey Emmerling, with help from Sam Rinebold. It was sound designed and mixed by Soren Begin, and Jai Berger.

Once again, a huge thank you to Alyson Moore, Chris Moriana, Darrin Mann, and everyone at The Barn for making this episode possible.

Thanks for listening.

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